tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post116798227048721530..comments2024-03-27T05:43:51.239-07:00Comments on The Invisible Ink Blog: The New Holy GrailBrian McDhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-65667827136979509822013-01-05T11:09:22.600-08:002013-01-05T11:09:22.600-08:00I'm done.I'm done.Brian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-56355190084179132122013-01-05T10:36:33.697-08:002013-01-05T10:36:33.697-08:00"No one has EVER argued the basic premise of ..."No one has EVER argued the basic premise of my position -- they argue around me position and ignore it."<br /><br />I don't ignore your position, but I can agree with the premise (that the story of an event is not the same as the event - that's it, right?), but not its conclusion. Because there are different kinds of games. You also say "Interactivity turns a story into a Trumgottisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256608047527163617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-56219765127042984892013-01-05T09:49:34.012-08:002013-01-05T09:49:34.012-08:00Hello Daniel,
Thanks for writing again. And thank...Hello Daniel,<br /><br />Thanks for writing again. And thanks for reading my stuff.<br /><br />As for the game/story things to be honest I wish I'd never said anything. I think it is the most contested thing that I have said.<br /><br />I have had this discussion so many times that I have said just about everything I can say and few people have changed their minds.<br /><br />No one has EVER Brian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-7881409321410409742013-01-04T12:16:35.530-08:002013-01-04T12:16:35.530-08:00I realize this post is cold, but I have some thoug...I realize this post is cold, but I have some thoughts to add.<br /><br />I started reading this post in disagreement with you Brian but you make an excellent arguments. I now have to agree with your division between game and story. You communicate in an incredibly clear manner. <br /><br />Nonetheless, games are attempting to incorporate story elements. I see your post as explaining why the two Daniel Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12214334186482741716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-50275537444998560452012-05-15T14:59:34.771-07:002012-05-15T14:59:34.771-07:00I don't have anything to add (at this point in...I don't have anything to add (at this point in time - maybe in a few years when I've thought more about it, and maybe even attempted to write a few stories), except to say thanks for writing. I'll continue to read your blog.<br /><br />/ RikardTrumgottisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256608047527163617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-2086545261067832552012-05-15T02:42:01.953-07:002012-05-15T02:42:01.953-07:00Trumgottist,
Sorry that it has taken me a while ...Trumgottist, <br /><br />Sorry that it has taken me a while to get back.<br /><br />You may not agree with my definition of games and that’s fine. All I can tell you is that no game person who I have ever had this discussion with ever has a working definition of story. They insist that games can have stories without being sure what a story is.<br /><br /><br />I think what folks are really Brian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-41690027149599538562012-04-29T04:42:27.030-07:002012-04-29T04:42:27.030-07:00I've been thinking about this a bit now. Not b...I've been thinking about this a bit now. Not because I need to convince you, since I don't (if you don't like games that's ok, and I can still learn from what you have to say even if you don't agree that games can have stories) but I find the discussion interesting.<br /><br />I like the definition of story that you put forth in the High Bar interview: "The telling or Trumgottisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256608047527163617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-14335464022013417612012-04-20T00:35:43.682-07:002012-04-20T00:35:43.682-07:00Hey Trumgottist,
Thanks so much for writing.
I u...Hey Trumgottist,<br /><br />Thanks so much for writing.<br /><br />I understand that many people disagree with me on the game/story thing. Which is fine, but there are a couple of things I don't understand. One thing is that gamers and game designers often say that games have stories, but when I ask folks to define "story" they can't. <br /><br />I find it interesting that Brian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-42038436527728993062012-04-19T13:30:05.514-07:002012-04-19T13:30:05.514-07:00Thanks. I obviously disagree on your view of (and ...Thanks. I obviously disagree on your view of (and dismissal of) stories in games, since the games I like the best are the story-based ones, but I still think we who'd like to make game stories can learn from what you're saying. What you're saying about the nature of stories is worth thinking about.<br /><br />(And I'm not alone in thinking that - I've been told that your book Trumgottisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256608047527163617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-67842599053762284852012-04-16T15:37:19.149-07:002012-04-16T15:37:19.149-07:00Trumgottist,
Thanks for checking out the blog. If...Trumgottist,<br /><br />Thanks for checking out the blog. If you care to you can find more of my thoughts on games and stories in this interview: http://vimeo.com/24547762<br /><br />Thanks again for reading.<br /><br />-- BrianBrian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-4558791851462690162012-04-13T03:14:31.001-07:002012-04-13T03:14:31.001-07:00The funny thing here is that I started reading thi...The funny thing here is that I started reading this blog because of my interest in making story-based games. (I'm reading it chronologically, so I don't know if you've addressed the issue again later.)<br /><br />"Stories are primarily a way of passing along information from one person to another. Good stories remain essentially the same after many retellings.<br /><br />Games Trumgottisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00256608047527163617noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-61372980430983503802010-05-17T13:37:22.181-07:002010-05-17T13:37:22.181-07:00Most games definitely don't have stories, but ...Most games definitely don't have stories, but rather serialized narratives that set up each spectacle one after the other. Such a thing is no more a story than the contents of my RSS news feed for the day are, by themselves, a story.<br /><br />The closest execution I can think of in a video game to actual storytelling was in a Playstation 1 title called Vandal Hearts. It had a clear hero Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10125745545009130612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-1169515183891829372007-01-22T17:19:00.000-08:002007-01-22T17:19:00.000-08:00Yeah, I think that's the way video games are. Pla...Yeah, I think that's the way video games are. Players alternate between game-play and story-time.Brian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-1169360545683028022007-01-20T22:22:00.000-08:002007-01-20T22:22:00.000-08:00I was thinking about this one some more... and re...I was thinking about this one some more... and realized that it's the cinematic sequences <I>between</I> the game that contained the actual story.<BR/><BR/>In the case of the Max Payne 2 example I cited above, it's the comic book cut-away sequences that contained the story. And I <I>would</I> still contest that those sequences told a story, and accede to the fact that the in-play game portion <M Kitchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175701673948795510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-1169074574672182222007-01-17T14:56:00.000-08:002007-01-17T14:56:00.000-08:00Brian, that was a very interesting read. I like ve...Brian, that was a very interesting read. I like very much how you made your point about the fact that we never think of Chess or any board games as being stories even though on the surface of things they have some elements that you would find in a story (characters, goals etc). Until you hit me with that one I wasn't quite on your wavelength. <BR/><BR/>I suppose when a new technology gives rise James Bakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18283687555480506116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-1168992204148764962007-01-16T16:03:00.000-08:002007-01-16T16:03:00.000-08:00Thanks for reading my rants and for writing in.I k...Thanks for reading my rants and for writing in.<BR/>I knew when I decided to post this particular blog that I would get a lot of comments. I also knew that people would swear that some games had stories. It reminds me of something Albert Einstein said: “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.” This is exactly what happens with this game/story idea. It is an illusion. I Brian McDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14725832940943503641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-1168978249737727472007-01-16T12:10:00.000-08:002007-01-16T12:10:00.000-08:00The last video game I played was Max Payne 2. I w...The last video game I played was Max Payne 2. I would argue that this game <I>did</I> have a story...<BR/><BR/>...though I do understand the point you are making.M Kitchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12175701673948795510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14646103.post-1168893073209249392007-01-15T12:31:00.000-08:002007-01-15T12:31:00.000-08:00I've been in the video game industry for over a de...I've been in the video game industry for over a decade, and I hear this time and time again. "You don't need a good story in a video game, it's all about the gameplay."<BR/>I've had the opportunity over the years to work with artists and game designers that DO care about the story and try to weave a good tale in between game play. It is a hard task. I agree gameplay should come first in video Augie Paganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12251063182152176847noreply@blogger.com